... Engine turns off!

  • Hello everybody,
    I took advantage of this afternoon's sun to go out for a ride. :)
    Strange thing has happened after about 10 km of trip: I slowed down at a stop sign and the engine... got stopped. ?( Tried various times to kick to re-start but nothing happened. At the end, I tried to kick after pushing the "hot start" white knurl on the carb's body (never used before as I remember!...) and finally the engine started.
    I decided to go back home, and when I slowed down at crossroads, roundabouts etc. the engine's RPMs slowed so down that I had to keep on turning the handgrip to prevent the engine from turning off. (Once at home, I noticed that the white knurl had reset itself during back trip.)
    When at home, I decided to inquire into the problem's cause. I tried to adjust the Leerlauf - Regulierschraube: until that moment it was set to standard 1 - 7/8 turns out, but then I found that the engine started and kept running at idle only if I get the Schraube fully screwed in! 8o ?( (With white knurl in OFF position, obviously.) If I tried to unscrew the Schraube little by little, RPMs slowed down to finally stop near standard 1 - 7/8 turns out.
    I tried to unscrew the Zündkerze too to see its colour (also if I think that it's not so relevant because of the many regulations): extremely black and sooty.


    I say first of all that during last days' rides nothing like this happened.
    I'm currently running with stock muffler, stock paper Luftfilter and NGK BP7ES.
    My Vergaser is the stock VM34SS, but without accelerator pump: all Düsen, Nadel, Schraube etc. that are installed were bought as a Rebuild-Kit from Kedo.


    What could have happen?


    Grüßen :ber:


    Simone

  • Die läuft also nur,wenn die Leerlaufgemischschraube ganz reingedreht ist, ansonsten ist sie viel zu fettich. Kann da ma einer der Experde was zu verpusten, speziell, wie das unterwegs entstehen kann?!
    Nobby


    P.S. Hi Simone, sorry, at first we must discuss in german.

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


    Better Motörhead than dead!

  • Hi


    sounds like a blocked jet in the carburettor.


    First thing would be to clean the carb.


    It may be just condensed water (the weather is like it), and a water drop blocking the idle jet.


    Maybe even flushing the carb without opening it would help.


    Andy

    der liebe gott will nicht, dass aluminium glänzt (kohai) * Bucheli-Projekt, Forums-Einsteigerwissen, Sölkpasstreffen > motorang.com/sr500

  • Also:
    The paper airfilters are really shitty . A little oilfog and they are tight.
    Remove the paperfilter and try to drive again. Dont hesitate, the engine would not mind. When this helps, buy a K&N filter.
    If the problem remains, try to suck on the thin hose at the fueltap.
    Prost?.... :403:
    Than you better change the membrane of the tap.
    Regards
    Rei97

  • Dear Simon, here a few hints from Sponsor KEDO:


    "The attitudes Carburettor, when the idle system and the lower speed ranges started, as these settings for the Anspringverhalten and Warmfahrphase of the engine are crucial. Only when these settings are at least satisfactory, the higher speed ranges vote because of a warm engine condition.
    Important: For the work should vote, whenever possible, first of all deactivates the accelerator pump, because it may be that the pump is a vote difficult.

    The swimmers should stand before any adjustment examined and possibly be set correctly.

    It is very important to have only one component to change and the change will immediately be tested. In this way can it be ensured that the amendment also had the desired effect. In addition, in small steps to ensure the ideal setting to really meet. It makes sense, the changes recorded.


    Step 1: idle and lower load range
    The setting of the idle air adjustment or idle gasoline adjustment (depending on model, either the air or set amount of gasoline) is made as follows:

    In the warm operational condition until the Leerlaufregulierschraube attack eindrehen (Caution: not too tight, lace can stop) and then rotate out so far, until the engine is the highest idle speed is reached. From this point, the adjustment quarter-turn in the direction of bold twist. Can be reached with the adjustment does not change speed (about 50-100 rpm), it is the wrong Leerlaufdüse elected.

    Running the engine at idle and restless, he fluctuates between sudden waste and subsequent rise, the idle system to set bold. Bring to set the Leerlaufregulierschraube (in 1 / 2 steps Revolution) does not lean in the direction of improvement is the size of the Leerlaufdüse not correct.

    Depends on the speed after a brief Gasstoß well above idle speed and drops only delayed the idle speed of up to 1000 rpm, so is the skinny idling system to be set. Note: in practice usually cause leaking intake these errors (for example, a leaking inlet).
    Tip: The tightness of the system may be prudent (Fire!) Spraying of the intake system with brake cleaner to be tested. This increases the speed, there is a leak before. Under this test, all rubber parts with plastic care before drying out and protect bare Aluteile clean.

    Another test is to check in second gear at about 3000 rpm, this should open in low gas as smooth running can be achieved.

    The attitude adjustment of the float height and Leerlaufdüse are the main components in the field sliding and load operation in the exchange to 4000 rpm. Leerlaufdüse with a larger Auspuffpatschen may be a possible (hard, dry) in the transition from the load-shift operation in the balance. The optimum size of the Leerlaufdüse will, however, mostly by the proper attitude of Leerlaufregulierschraube found.

    Problems in the lower load range and increased fuel consumption can also be worn by needles and needle jet nozzles caused. These parts with great care should be examined.
    Also in the field of high speeds and little open gas is the attitude of Leerlaufregulierschraube and the size of the Leerlaufdüse relevant. Is the attitude of the idle system bold, reinforcing the problems with rising engine temperature. The setting is the skinny idling system to reduce the problems with rising engine temperature. Can be observed this phenomenon e.g. at constant gas with a slightly open.

    Due to the high pressure in the intake manifold of gasifier holding in sliding (slide is closed, the engine turns but still higher than idling speed), magert from the mixture. To offset this phenomenon, have many carburetor on a mixture unterdruckgesteuerte enrichment. It comes in the sliding operation to Auspuffpatschen, the membrane of the mixture enrichment (AirCut valve) to be reviewed. This membrane is broken, the mixture enrichment does not work correctly."
    L'atteggiamento del carburatore, quando il minimo e il sistema di gamme di velocità inferiore iniziato, in quanto tali impostazioni per il Anspringverhalten e Warmfahrphase del motore sono fondamentali. Solo quando queste impostazioni sono almeno soddisfacente, la velocità più elevata gamme votazione a causa di una condizione motore caldo.
    Importante: Per il lavoro dovrebbe votare, se possibile, prima di tutto disattiva l'acceleratore pompa, perché può essere che la pompa è un voto difficile.

    I nuotatori dovrebbero stare prima di ogni adeguamento esaminato ed eventualmente essere impostato correttamente.

    È molto importante disporre di un solo componente di cambiare e il cambiamento sarà immediatamente sottoposta a test. In questo modo è possibile garantire che l'emendamento ha avuto anche l'effetto desiderato. Inoltre, in piccoli passi al fine di garantire la cornice ideale per soddisfare davvero. E 'logico, i cambiamenti registrati.


    Fase 1: stand-by e di carico inferiore gamma
    L'impostazione della regolazione aria di inattività o inattività adeguamento benzina (a seconda del modello, sia l'aria o importo di benzina) è composto come segue:

    Nel caldo condizione operativa fino alla Leerlaufregulierschraube attacco eindrehen (Attenzione: non troppo stretto, pizzi può fermare) e quindi ruotare finora, fino a quando il motore è il più alto regime di minimo è raggiunto. Da questo punto, l'adeguamento quarto di girare in direzione di torsione in grassetto. Può essere raggiunto con l'adeguamento non cambia velocità (circa 50-100 giri / min), è sbagliato Leerlaufdüse eletti.

    Eseguire il motore al minimo e inquieto, egli oscilla tra i rifiuti e improvvisa successive luogo, il sistema di inattività per impostare grassetto. Portare ad impostare il Leerlaufregulierschraube (in 1 / 2 passi rivoluzione), non magra, in direzione del miglioramento è la dimensione del Leerlaufdüse non corretta.

    Dipende dalla velocità dopo un breve Gasstoß ben al di sopra di inattività velocità e gocce solo ritardato il regime di minimo fino a 1000 giri / min, così magro è il sistema minimo da stabilire. Nota: in pratica, di solito causare perdite di assunzione di questi errori (per esempio, uno che perde aspirazione).
    Suggerimento: la tenuta del sistema può essere prudente (Fuoco!) Polverizzazione del sistema di aspirazione con freno pulite essere sottoposti a prove. Questo aumenta la velocità, vi è una perdita prima. Ai sensi di tale prova, tutte le parti in gomma plastica con cura prima di asciugare e proteggere nudo Aluteile pulita.

    Un'altra prova è quello di effettuare il check-in seconda marcia a circa 3000 giri / min, questo dovrebbe essere aperta in basso gas come buon funzionamento può essere raggiunto.

    L'atteggiamento di regolazione del galleggiante Leerlaufdüse altezza e sono i principali componenti nel campo di scorrimento e carico di funzionamento nello scambio a 4000 giri / min. Leerlaufdüse con un più ampio Auspuffpatschen può essere un possibile (duro, secco) nella transizione dal carico di spostamento in saldo. La dimensione ottimale del Leerlaufdüse, tuttavia, in gran parte dal buon atteggiamento di Leerlaufregulierschraube trovato.

    Problemi in basso a carico gamma e l'aumento del consumo di carburante può anche essere indossata da aghi e ugelli a getto d'ago causato. Queste parti con grande cura deve essere esaminato.
    Anche in materia di alta velocità e poco aperto il gas è l'atteggiamento di Leerlaufregulierschraube e le dimensioni del Leerlaufdüse pertinenti. È l'atteggiamento del sistema inattivo grassetto, rafforzando i problemi con l'aumento della temperatura del motore. L'impostazione è magro al minimo il sistema per ridurre i problemi con l'aumento della temperatura del motore. Si può osservare questo fenomeno ad esempio, a costante di gas con un po 'aperto.

    A causa della alta pressione nel collettore di aspirazione di gasifier in scorrimento (slide è chiuso, il motore gira, ma ancora superiore a quello minimo), da magert miscela. Per compensare questo fenomeno, sono molte carburatore su una miscela unterdruckgesteuerte arricchimento. Esso viene nel funzionamento scorrevole a Auspuffpatschen, la membrana della miscela di arricchimento (AirCut valvola) che devono essere riesaminate. Questa membrana è rotto, la miscela di arricchimento non funziona correttamente.


    spagettie carbonara
    dolce vita
    Zechstein

    Das Gute, das steht nun fest,
    ist das Böse, das man lässt.
    W. Busch

  • Thanks everybody for suggestions!
    Rei97 gives me an idea: could the air filter be the wrong one? I mean: I've a Papierluftfilter installed on my 2J4, but is the right one a Sponge filter? (like this?)
    Also because I've looked into the fuel tank some minute ago... and I've noticed a quite high fuel consumption.


    Grüßen :ber:


    Simone

  • Also:
    The pic shows the serial part. The paper filter looks similar but has a plissee-look. It works until there is a tiny oilfog coming up from the engines air vent. You will find out by driving without a filter.
    Regards
    Rei97

    Einmal editiert, zuletzt von unknown ()

  • @Rei97: yes, the link I posted was referred to the sponge filter. The paper one that I've installed looks like this.
    The Benzinhahn's membrane is OK, replaced not a long ago. I'll try to take the filter away (while getting a little worried!...).


    Hetzer: doesn't the K&N filter require severe Vergaser modifications as written here?


    Grüßen :ber:


    Simone


  • Just came up from the garage.
    Found out that the engine started only: 1) if I pushed the white knurl before, or 2) if I fully screwed in the Regulierschraube. No difference if Luftfilter was installed or not (although I firmly think that at least a *small* difference should have been noted all the way!).
    Checked with Colortune too, flame was a little bit more blueish without Luftfilter at idle. Revving up flame became orangeish in both ways (with - without Luftfilter).


    While I was there, I've checked the Benzinhahn again: it works great.


    :(


    Grüßen


    S

  • Zitat

    Original von Muffler82
    doesn't the K&N filter require severe Vergaser modifications as written here?


    No, it´s plug&play.


    Zitat

    Minton: The stock airbox is actually very good, with a large intake horn and a carefullly shaped tube leading to the carburetor. The stock filter, though, is terrible and should be replaced with one from K&N. There is no substantial gain from removing the airbox unless you are planning extensive engine work.

  • Also:
    you can not check with or without Filter in the garage nor with the Colortunte.
    You have to really drive without filterat the highway...No worry...nothing will happen.
    I drive completely open without Filter...
    If the old powerfeel is back, buy the K&N and install it PNPl,
    Regards
    Rei97

  • Zitat

    Original von Hetzer


    No, it´s plug&play.


    Yes! But read some further line ahead:


    Slide Cut Away


    Minton: The K&N filter's low restriction has a severe effect on the stock-carb tuning. The restrictive stock filter acts as a built-in choke, and the carb was tuned to run with quite a pressure drop built into the system. Most who have tried to correct the stock jetting to accommodate either the K&N replacement or a larger filter that entirely replaces the airbox have been frustrated because raising the needle or replacing the idle jet doesn't help very much. It is necessary to modify the stock slide to tune it for the less-restrictive K&N. The stock throttle-slide cutaway is 4.5, large for a muffled engine. It needs to be about 3.5 for the K&N and Kerker header pipe. I have found that .05 inch removed from the bottom of the slide corrects the stock carbs tuning. This material removal lowers the slide and corrects the severe hesitation just off idle. You can do this with a sharp file and, if you are reasonably careful, can save the price of an aftermarket carb you really don't need.


    Vonderhey: I am not aware of any richer slides (with smaller cut-aways) available for the stock SR carbs, so a modification is in order.... File .050" off the bottom of the slide, making sure that the bottom edges are square with the slide and that all sharp edges are slightly bevelled and smooth. Don't file the cut-away area, just file the bottom of the slide where it contacts the carb-body. The mixture should now be improved from idle to 1/4 throttle and the spitting-back and hesitating should disappear.


    ;)


    UPDATE:
    I remember that when I overhaul the Vergaser I followed the instructions written on the Wartungsanleitung for the float height. But I've just compared it with what's written on the Haynes... here it is:


    Wartungsanleitung: 22.0 +/- 2.5 mm
    Haynes: 23.5 +/- 1.0 mm


    I think that tomorrow I'll dismantle the carb!


    Grüßen


    Simone

  • Hi Simon,
    maybe this link can help you:
    [URL=http://www.xt500.it/[/URL]
    zechstein

    Das Gute, das steht nun fest,
    ist das Böse, das man lässt.
    W. Busch

  • Zitat

    Original von Zechstein
    Hi Simon,
    maybe this link can help you:
    [URL=http://www.xt500.it/[/URL]
    zechstein


    I'm already registered on their forum ;) thank you very much anyway for helping Zechstein.


    Update: I've dismantled the carb, adjusted the float height (I've set at the tolerance limit to try: 23.5 +/- 1.0 mm, I've set at 24.5 mm) and replaced the jets, needle, screw etc. with the old ones I dismantled when overhauling - they show very little wear signs on, but they're the original Mikuni, not like the new I had installed.
    I checked the needle's height, too.
    Couldn't warm up the bike enough because I had to come back to work and I hadn't time, results are surely invalidate by this thing, but situation doesn't look a lot better. The only positive thing is that the engine started without using the "with knurl" (maybe exactly because the engine was cold?!?).
    The rest: turning the pilot jet screw changes nothing, and fuel consumption seems to remain quite high (I've seen with my eyes because the fuel tank was dismantled, and I've feed the carb with a funnel and a pipe. Anyway some fuel could have evaporate because of open container, vibrations and heat from engine.)
    I've tried with Colortune too, but with cold engine I know it's been a waste of time. Anyway this is what it says: rich mixture, flame is orangeish becoming lighter when revving. Colour seems "quite" regular at idle. Just above idle, flame is a good blueish.


    ... :(


    Grüße


    Simone

  • Zitat

    Original von rei97
    Also:
    why didnt you take a K&N ???...
    The stock filter has too much air restriction too.
    Regards
    Rei97


    Just because I had to overhaul the bike (I overhauled on Friday morning, filter fitted on Thursday night...) and I thought that emissions test could be a little tricky without checking carburation before (practically no time left!), after fitting the K&N. So I decided to place everything as factory fitted - the only left thing was the original air filter, so...
    I've asked my mechanic about the carburation after the emissions test, and he said "right. Not a little bit rich, not a little bit lean: right."


    Now, if the stock filter begins giving problems, I'll go for a K&N :)
    I was interested also to install a new carb, if the exixting gives problems, something like a round slide VM34. And a new muffler, keeping the original I have for overhauling as it seems to be a little rare and very expensive to replace :(
    But all these things require a little bit of money, so I think I'll have to wait some time more...


    Grüße :ber:


    Simone

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